“Build a great, big, large fence- 150-100 mile long – put all the lesbians in there. Every day fly over and drop food in. Do the same for the queers and homosexuals, and have the fence electrified so they can’t escape….and you know what….they’ll die out….do you know why? They can’t reproduce!”
Some wonder why gay Christians do not attend church and sense excluded from most evangelical and fundamentalist churches. Just read the comments above again, and those of countless others who readily preach, believe, and proclaim as God’s ambassadors, similar hate messages. Ordained ministers and other Christians who preach that gay/lesbian and transgended people should be exiled, imprisoned, removed from family, friends and “condemned” to a slow death...or, a quicker death by stoning as discussed by Pastors Kevin Swanson and Dave Buehner on Generations Radio recently in response to a Gay couple being married on a Rose Bowl Parade Float: ..…”I wonder what the Rose Bowl Parade would do if we had a stoning of a homosexual along the Parade route, just as an expression of free speech and all that.” Pastor Buehner mused.
Why aren’t gay Christians open and honest about themselves at mainstream churches (and the SA), and why do gay Christians remain in the shadows/closeted around Christians who believe as the Pastors above believe? It is simply because many gay Christians do not feel safe or comfortable talking about one’s spouse/family around certain Christians because we know the judgments will be made; at times verbally, at times silently, but always made - and then exclusion often follows.
The reality is, gay people will not “die off” as this pastor and others might wish. We are all created by the same God, and we are all part of the natural range of ‘normal’.
It does cause me to wonder, if and when the hate thoughts and rhetoric will ever end?
It is difficult for me to understand or grasp what motivates or compels those in some churches, to exclude gay Christians and even think such hateful and unkind things about fellow Christians.
With many others, I question, what would Jesus do?? Would Jesus put gay people behind electrified fences, exclude them from family/friends, and just let them die off?
John 3:16-17 “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. God sent not His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through him might be saved. “
I am created in God’s image! I am God’s child! I belong to the family of God! God offered salvation to the whosoever. It was not limited to those religious denominations that practice or do not practice certain sacraments; not limited to those who only believe in the King James Version of the Bible as the inerrant word of God; or to those who believe they can exclude any of God’s children from worship and inclusion. God sent Jesus so that WHOSOEVER BELIEVETH in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. There is no “Except”, with an addendum of those excluded. Whosoever includes everyone: Jew, Gentile, Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, Black, White, Hispanic, Asian, Arabian, African, Russian, Chinese, etc.; Heterosexual, Homosexual, all who BELIEVE, and join the WHOSOEVER, are welcome as children of the living God.
That “Whosoever” includes me, and all other Christians gays. I know God created me gay! I know I did not make a choice to be gay! I was born gay in a family where the reference to ‘gay/homosexual’ was never even uttered. I did not understand or come to realization of what that “difference” was; that difference I have felt and known all my life, even after I accepted Jesus Christ into my heart/life and became a Christian at a young age. It was much later in my late 30’s when I came to understand and realize I was gay, created as such by God who made my life new and whole through Christ Jesus.
 |
| SVEN, GLAD and ME |
Perhaps these pastors and other Christians who preach hate, exclusion, exile, and even death do so, if even in a small part, because they do not know any gay Christians, and for them we are a faceless, silent group. Perhaps we, as gay Christians who have loved and served God in many different places and walks, need to break through that silence and unite our voices in witness, love and truth!
I can only speak for myself, and I invite others to join me in this dialogue!
We all lose so much, and miss
out on so many blessings and experiences when we judge and/or exclude any child
of God! I gladly give God the
glory for all He has accomplished through my life, and how He continues to use
my life for His purpose.
I am blessed to be a child of the King!
Former SA Officer, USA South
26 comments:
Iva thank you for your open and honest reflection. Thank you for spewing with integrity. Every blessing to you and your spouse, may God continue to use you to draw people into the kingdom.
Well written, honest story of a life well lived. I am honored to call you my friend. Even if you were straight.
Iva, thanks so much for sharing!
Former, USA West
Blessings Iva. Thank you for your honesty. Yes, we do need to speak out, and tell people the reality that there are gay Christians, who love and serve The Lord. We need to stand up to the hate filled rhetoric that is sprouted so that others are not marginalised as we have been, or worse.
Your friend,
Graeme Randall
Former Australian East in London
Great article. How courageous and brave to bare your soul in this way. Your honesty gives me hope that other heterosexual Christians such as myself will become more tolerant and accepting of all, regardless of our sexual preferences. It has saddened me for a while that 'Christians' are viewed as haters, yet many preach hate. In response to WWJD, it is my belief that He would not be involved in anything that preaches hate, intolerance or exclusion.
Former, Canada & Bermuda Territory
Just when I thought there was nothing more to say that would affect my long held position that homosexuality is sinful you drop this mind-changing bomb! I suppose we should have seen it coming. Me thinks there's more on the way.
I admit that I may not have faced this issue with a open mind and have acted less than graceful and even wrongly in my prejudice.
I look forward to learning more.
Salvationist NA
Thank you Iva. Authorative and challenging word. Hit the nail on the head. God continue to bless & use you.
( from a former Former.)
SHARING IN CYBERSPACE -
It's like, somewhere along the line, we decided that our opinions were more important than the things that brought us to them. In truth, I don't care about your opinion. For real. I do not care.
But, your story? Yes, please. Your story sways me, moves me. Your story changes me.
The beauty of the internet is not conversation, it's connection.
Say anything. Yes. ...But say it to my face.
I don't say things online that I wouldn't say to your face. I believe that's why it works.
What you read here is who I am, true, but this is not me “being brave”. I get brave with my friends, late at night, curled up on the couch with both hands around a coffee mug. That's when I tell my secrets and say things I would never say out loud to anyone else. That's when I say anything.
But here, we've lost our social graces. There are no facial cues to tell us how we're being perceived, and so it's easy to believe that our conversation is more important than our connection, it's easy to betray friendship and kindness in favor of making a point. This is why all of the reasonable people are talking of jumping ship, like it's time to quit the internet.
California Missionary
I've sung both Iva's song and yours Sven in songsters over the years.
Ringwood Corps
Melbourne, Australia
Thank you so much Iva for sharing your heart. As God continues to bless you, thank you for being a blessing.. I love your " courageous honesty" always ...blessings
Eph 3:20
So nice to hear your story!! I felt like you were telling my story--except I am about 10 years younger and one less sibling!!However,
I have been silent and have not wanted to debate Scripture and/or the gay issue but I am gay and Christian! How can I stay silent?? Your article assures me that it is possible.
What songs did you write??
Former, Canada
God Bless You Iva! And don't be too concerned about the three nutty homophobic pastors either.
If what's embarrassingly happened in the last several decades to a number of big name rabble-rousing homophobic clergymen, politicians and etc. is any indication of what's really going on, the three of them are probably just subconsciously talking about themselves anyway.
Shalom Iva, Shalom.
Daryl Lach
USA Central
"You Must Go Home By the Way of the Cross, To Stand With Jesus In the Morning!"
“The church(the corps) is not a theological classroom. It is a conversion, confession, repentance, reconciliation, forgiveness and sanctification center, where flawed people place their faith in Christ, gather to know and love him better, and learn to love others as he designed.”
― Paul David Tripp, Instruments in the Redeemer's Hands: People in Need of Change Helping People in Need of Change
You're telling my story, too -- thank you, Iva.
Born and raised a Salvationist, I was commissioned with the Victorious session ('71). Served until 1981. Leaving TSA was traumatic, but how could I continue?
Thank God for not leaving me and for loving me today.
I, like many others, am a non-celibate gay Christian. I am married to my partner of 31+ years.
Thank you, Iva, for giving me the inspiration to say those words on this site.
Thanks be to God --
Pat Conley, USA West, former.
I do wish to say thank all of you for taking the time to comment. I know it is easy to read an article and just move on. Sharing a comment means thought has influenced what we are sharing. I certainly do not expect every comment to be in agreement, or acceptance, but I do pray some of what impacted me when I read the articles I quoted will also cause others to consider how their words and beliefs affect others.
To Anonymous, Canada, the song most refer to is "His Loving Touch". I have written other songs, several others were published, not all by The S,A. The Christian songs I write I have always considered a gift from God, and pray they continue to be used by Him.
Love her song: Loving Touch! My summer appointment (84) in Canada was on the EV (evangelistic) Team. As we travelled in Northern Ontario, we sang that song everywhere we went, including Open Airs. Many were touched by God's ministry through us, esp. the ministry of music. This song was a real blessing to those of us on the team, too. & you can't imagine the thrill of a lifetime when I mentioned this song on FB, & someone told me they new the songwriter! I can't remember who that individual was, but they put me in touch w/Iva, too!
Thanks, Iva Samples! You are indeed a King's Kid! & bless you for your honest sharing. :)
Elizabeth Hogan-Hayduk
former Salvation Army Officer
Canada & Bermuda territory.
Iva, than you for your integrity and courage. I too can identify with your story.
I have been in a committed relationship for 18 years. My partner and I have three foster children and are approved as adopters. I work as a family doctor. I am accepted and respected in all aspects of my life.... except my church.
I am a fifth generation Salvationist and have held a number of local officer positions in the past, but since 'coming out' at church I am no longer in uniform. Despite my corps friends telling me how much I am loved and how valuable my ministry is leading the puppet team, I still feel like a second class citizen and simply 'not good enough' for the Army.
I have stayed around in the hope that people who know me, and those who meet me, might see something of Jesus reflected in my life and perhaps be persuaded to change their views about loving committed gay relationships.
The problem, as I see it, is that most people have never considered any other view than that historically taught by the Army or any other possible interpretation of scripture. The Army rarely offers any balanced discussion of the scripture in my experience.
I have personally had dialogue with three former Generals, two of them face to face, and one whilst still in office at his invitation. Whilst I live in hope, I feel it unlikely that anything will change in my lifetime. However, the Bible has been used to justify slavery and apartheid and to denounce divorce and the place of women in the church in the past. Hope must remain that at least in generations to come the Army will become an affirming church where all God's children feel truly welcome. I really pray it will be so.
Dawn
Edinburgh, Scotland
Dawn, what heart-rending words:
"I still feel like a second class citizen and simply 'not good enough'. . ."
Thank you for posting. Thanks you.
Thank you Claris Tucker. 10 years younger....good for you. We need younger Christians ready to witness in truth and love. Blessings!
Daryl Lach, I have read many of your postings/writings in the last few years. These pastors were just the final ones in a series that caused me to say enough in my heart, and the rest is in the post. Thank you for your support. Blessings!
Paul David Tripp, thank you for saying so clearly, we are all 'People in need of help, helping People in need of help! Blessings.
Pat Conley, thank you for reminding all of us that our stories are similar and tend to merge at the heart where God joins us all together as His children.
Elizabeth, thank you and bless you and your family my friend.
Dawn, your own story is so powerful. It is true that sometime we cannot change anyone, but God uses all our lives and stories and change comes from the recognized sameness in all our lives and stories. God is good!! He is in control, and His love will win out.
Mary Jane
Ivy (childhood name that has stuck)..I am so very proud of you. You had to wonder what my reaction would be when I read this..I am very proud of you old friend! Maybe years ago I would have felt differently but I had a friend whose son was gay and he moved to California as soon as he graduated from high school because he could not face telling his parents. A few years later he called hus Mom and told her he was sick..he had Aids...She told him to come home...his Dad left and they divorced. Oh yeah, it was NOT caused by his loving partner..he was not sick. I needed a place to live and she invited me to share her home. I loved her children as mine, our kids grew up together playing sports..baseball..football..soccer and basketball! I had been there just a few weeks when she told me the news...and saud she would understand if I wanted to move....WHAT...I loved him...and I loved her...she was my best friend! I stayed...we took care of him....we knew we were going to lose him some day...what we dud not know, was that I would lose one of my children first. We all mourned together...they cried with me and my other children and I felt like my world had ended. He helped me.....I had been a Christian since childhood and it took this wonderful Christian young man to open my eyes and realize we are not all the same...he had made peace with his illness and His God and through him I started my trip of healing with my loss. He was very active in church and when he lost his battle 2 years later, we saw how much he was loved...over 600 in attendance at his funeral.
You have been my friend for over..ready...60 years and I love you..never forgot you.
I really hope to see you and your spouse soon....and review all that has happened with family and friends.
I am very proud of your stand for yourself and the hope for the future that not just our beloved TSA...but for all churches to realize what they preach on TV and from their pulpits is distorting the truth...God loves us all...and made us in His image....do we all look alike....features no...but we are build like Him. Your post was beautiful and I am so glad you sent me the link.
Mary Jane!! You are the most wonderful example of unconditional friendship and love!! Bless you my dear friend. We have much to catch up on. Will be so happy to see you and have an opportunity to spend time, and share. God is good!! love to you. Iva Lou (Ivy)
How wonderfull and beautiful to read the conversation between the two long time friends Mary Jane and Iva.
In my heart, this is one fine exampel of the purpuose for the fellowship of former sa officers. Reconceliation and some times a change of heart caused of life it self.
May Lord Jesus guide us and bless us all.
N/S Carolina Division Southern Territory
I was a camp staffer at Camp Walter Johnson back in the early 70's when it was built. You had some beautiful songs which I still remember today. I have been trying to remember one and can only get about half of it, can you help me out with the rest? "Like the freshness of a falling raindrop, from our Father grace and mercy he bestows. When we come to him and ask him as our savior such a peace and happiness within us flows" Any help with the rest??? Debi Sigmon Salisbury, NC Corps , September 19, 2015
Post a Comment