My position on welcoming gays and lesbian in to
my (church) fellowship has changed. But marriage to same sex partners still
needs more time- Civil Unions though are OK.
I'll be brief. My position is; all people should be welcome in all
churches. Radical, I know. Why? Because that is the mandate of Christ. Not
only the white, or married, or straight, or childless, or under 20s. All
people should be welcome in all churches. Simple, clear statement.
For those who say marriage is a church
institution and not a civil one...err...wrong answer. Marriage, NOT civil
unions require a STATE license. As citizens of the state everyone is entitled
to the same rights and privileges, from education to taxes to speeding tickets
to marriage licenses. The good, bad and the ugly, but equal. How dare anyone
deny someone a marriage license because they don't approve of whom they love.
Civil unions need not exist. A marriage is a marriage is a marriage. In my state
and yours.
If a church refuses to perform or accept a
marriage that is their prerogative but it is also their loss, for only in
diversity and acceptance do we truly experience love, as Christ's own. Why
would anyone calling them self a Christian want to widen instead of narrow that
gap?
Deb Taube
Former officer
USA
Deb Taube
Former officer
USA
14 comments:
you stirrer.... ;)
Not this again....and again....
Homosexuality... not a sin nor a sickness. To the negative poster ... judge not lest ye be judged!
Many in our ranks are gay and serve God with a huge anointing on there lives and many come to faith through there diligence. Long may it continue.
Therefore acceptance of same sex unions are long over due in our movement.
There is also historic evidence of same sex unions in the Church. Before making negative comments check the facts. Books and articles written by academics like: Bostock and Week e tc team with evidence of such inclusion.
Who's judging? Get a grip!
Thank you friends for your support and encouragement!
We'll never let the old flag fall nor let others shame it as we stand silent…
Former New England
Scripture is very clear on this. homosexuality is an enormous sin read leviticus.
To accept gays and lesbians into The Salvation Army would rip it apart as what is happening with church of England and Church of Scotland. You would see a breakaway army with Corps against this forming another army. That would be the death of the Army that I love and cherish.I would also have no hesitation in resigning my artilces of war. I could not sit under a preacher who is an enormous sinner.
How sad. But if we follow this one aspect of levitical law then we must accept the whole! Therefore all women would be subject to serious subservience. Food rules would be instgated that would greatly curtail. Legalistic pharisaic rule would prevail.
Through Jesus the necessity for the law in this way was dismissed. Therefore fulfilling the law. We therefore read the Old Testament through New Testament eyes. T
Therefore to say we refuse to accept the Ministry of one called by God we become nothing more than doctrinal judges. There are many in ministry who are gay in TSA whose ministries bring many closer to Christ and His purpose. Therefore let God judge...
The problem with TSA has been that we are too pharisaical and therefore lack compassion and love.
When reading the OT as a teacher I have been taught to do so putting content into historical fact. In doing so we understand the timeframe and the exergetics if the chapter being studied.
Finally if all gay officers and ministers in any church had a mass walk out the church would seriously find a void that was sizemic. If course promiscuous behaviour is wrong but how many heterosexual salvationist have been so and also those married adulterous. It cannot be right if the example to one group is castagation to another.
JESUS said... love one another as I have loved you. Therefore inclusivity is part and parcel of the Gospel message. Did Jesus ever mention or condemn homosexuality? Not to my better knowledge. To use the OT arguments or indeed the Pauline ones brings us back to accepting Levtical law in doing so we cannot just accept in part but in whole which makes women subservience and food law etc inevitable.
We are taught to love the sinner and hate the sin. But sadly we appear to be hating both. In doing so we become salt that has lost it savor.
Finally. I was once told having left TSA by my DC at the time ... I was in a monogomus gay partnership with a fellow salvationist. Following what was a serious interegation at DHQ i was tokd that i was a "salvationist christian" not a "Christian Salvationist"... therefore if I fell under a bus that night because I had broken my covenant I would go to hell! With such misguided doctrine no wonder TSA flounders when grappling with thorny issyes like homosexuality.
There are some OT laws that we are expected to keep, though - if we all disregarded the Ten Commandments, where would we be?
Gay relationships by themselves are sterile - there is no procreation without the intervention of a third party - if the relationship is monogamous, how can that 3rd person not be an 'adulterous' member - as the resulting 'issue' only physically belongs to one of the monogamous partners. this surely isn't what God intended for marriage.
Who mentioned marriage. Jesus was the fulfilment of the law.
E-er - it's in the article actually. The writer says it's marriage or nothing - no civil partnerships. I was just saying I didn't agree with it on the grounds that you can't compare heterosexual marriage with gay marriage. That's all. My choice. My thinking.
Dear Anonymous,
"If we disregarded the 10 Commandments where would be?"
How about left with the 2 Great Commandments of Jesus?
Besides so many Xians are all too prone to breaking the first three of the 10 Commandments anyway, as is so often evidenced by comments on this site alone. Some of the breaking is probably even being made by me, although I try not to.
In fact re-read your own comment again. You're sort of doing it yourself kiddo.
Daryl Lach
USA Central
"You Must Go Home By the Way of the Cross, To Stand With Jesus in the Morning!"
Perhaps you should read it again - kiddo. I never mentioned 'breaking' or 'keeping' them' - I was merely pointing out that they are there for us to heed. 'Expect to keep' is very different from 'keeping'. We'll never 'keep' them - we are human - kiddo.
'Some of the breaking is probably even being made by me' - wow, even you - such lofty thoughts, and, with respect, a rather arrogant statement.
Everyone breaks the 10 commandments - even you, O lofty one.
It's in their breaking that we all find ourselves in this impossible debate about homosexuality versus heterosexuality. It has become a god that some worship, and a mantra that is endless. People have emotional ties to either viewpoint and the gap will never narrow, in my opinion. Some heterosexual people will embrace inclusivity, because they can do so, but others, because of inner convictions, can never do so. That will never change - it's inbred. Black can never be white, and vice versa. You have two opposing views of God's creation and His purpose for humankind. And instead of the endless drip, drip, drip of aggressive 'persuasion', both sides should accept those differences and let God be the judge.
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