A law permitting
same-sex marriage in England and Wales received Royal Assent in July, 2013 and
the first same-sex weddings are due to take place in England and Wales in less
than two weeks, from 29 March, but the law specifies that the CofE will not
conduct them.
The
Church's official teaching is that marriage must be between a man and a woman.
Anglican clergy of the same sex are allowed by the Church to enter civil
partnerships, but only on the understanding that they will remain celibate.
Under the terms of the
bill, religious organisations will
have to "opt in" to offer gay weddings - (Religious groups, eg. The Salvation Army, can "opt in" to offer gay marriages) but the Church of England
and the Church in Wales are banned from doing so.
Those
in civil partnerships can choose to convert their relationships to marriage but
are under no obligation to do so. The procedure for such a conversion is
expected to be in place by the end of the year.
BBC Report
The
Salvation Army is a Protestant denomination of the Christian Church with over
1.6 million members in 109 countries. It is an evangelical Protestant
denomination of the universal Christian Church
In
the UK there are over 800 Salvation Army parishes (known as corps), over 1,500
ordained ministers (known as officers) and 54,000 members (including senior
soldiers, adherents and junior soldiers).
Salvation Army halls are
registered as places of worship. Salvation Army officers are ordained ministers
of religion, and can conduct weddings.
Its
mission is: to preach the gospel of Jesus Christ and to meet human needs in His
name without discrimination.
Statistics
(2009)
Worldwide
1.6
million members (including senior soldiers, adherents and junior soldiers) in 109
countries
15,339
corps (parishes or church units)
17,346
full time ministers (officers)
1,000
schools and 250 hospitals and clinics worldwide
UK
Over
54,000 members (including senior soldiers, adherents and junior soldiers)
Over
800 corps (parishes or church units)
Over
1500 full time ministers (officers)
The Salvation Army
beliefs (BBC report)
The
Salvation Army is a mainstream Protestant church. Its beliefs are based
entirely on the Bible. There is nothing unusual about the doctrines held by
members of the Salvation Army - they are much the same as those of other
evangelical protestant groups. The Army describes itself like this:
The
Salvation Army is a fellowship of people who have accepted Jesus Christ as
their personal Saviour and Lord and whose common aim is to induce others to
subject themselves to the lordship of Christ.
The
Salvation Army name for a parish is a Salvation Army Corps. Corps are led by
officers, the Army equivalent of ministers. Only officers and soldiers are
counted as full members of the Salvation Army.
Marriage
The Salvationist wedding
ceremony is very similar to any church wedding, but with some unique Salvation
Army additions. For example:
The Salvation Army flag
is prominently displayed, indicating that the marriage includes a spiritual
commitment
The bride and groom may
wear uniform if they are both uniformed Salvationists (though this is
increasingly rare)
When both bride and
groom are Salvationists, they promise to support each other spiritually and in
their work for the Army in addition to making the conventional marriage vows
One
question frequently asked is: "Who can Salvationists marry?" - and people are often surprised that the answer is: "Anybody that the law permits".
Salvationists
don't have to get married to other Salvationists (but very often they do); they
don't even have to marry other Christians (although they almost always do).
Sexual ethics and
marriage
The
Salvation Army recognizes that the battle between flesh and spirit is never
easy, but believes that the sex drive is designed by God to lead to the highest
expression of human love only within the holy estate of matrimony and holds to the Christian ideals of
chastity before marriage and fidelity within the marriage relationship. It
believes that believes that sex and its proper use is a gift, created, ordained
and blessed by God and intended to find expression only within the context of a
loving marriage relationship.
Homosexuality
The
Salvation Army believes that homosexual Christians must live celibate lives,
since the Bible forbids sexual intimacy between members of the same sex. (Unless they are legally married?) The Army does not accept same-sex
unions as equal to, or as an alternative to, heterosexual marriage. (And
what about a legal same sex marriage?)
The
Salvation Army opposes any discrimination against homosexuals, and accepts as
members homosexuals who will abide by the principle that sexual intimacy is
only acceptable within marriage.
Homosexual
practices unrenounced render a person unacceptable as a Salvation Army soldier,
in the same way as heterosexual acts of immorality.
Salvation
Army. (Unless they are legally married?)
Members of the clergy
should be allowed to offer blessings to same-sex couples, a report commissioned
by the Church of England has recommended.
The
report, produced by four bishops and chaired by former civil servant Sir Joseph
Pilling, does not propose offering a "formal liturgy". But it says
priests should be "free" to give gay couples a "public
service".
The
Church pointed out the report is for discussion and is "not a new policy
statement from the Church of England", but says the Church must find
"ways of honouring" gay Christians who "conscious of the
Church's teaching, have embraced a chaste and single lifestyle, and also those
who in good conscience have entered partnerships with a firm intention of
life-long fidelity".
It
says clergy should, with the agreement of their local church council, "be
free to mark the formation of a permanent same-sex relationship in a public
service but should be under no obligation to do so".
Robert
Pigott BBC News
Sven Ljungholm
Liverpool
Sven Ljungholm
Liverpool
21 comments:
So if I have read and understood correctly the Salvation Army accepts same sex marriage and sexual intimacy within a legal marriage? But not a civil partnership? Seems to me that this is not very clear at all on what isn't isn't accepted.
Please note! The article is a compilation of the recent UK legal rulings AND a SA statement made to the BBC in 2009. The 'link' is intentional to garner a SA response.
I say confusion extraordinaire!
I say confusion extraordinaire!
FSAOF member USA Central
Confused!
My point of view is that sexuel intimacy should be held within marriage.
So I share this view with the Salvation army.
Now - in an increasing number of states and countries it's possible for gay couples to get leagely married, in some countries even within Church...
I acknowledge the Salvation armys right to defined its own Theology, regarding for example Marriage.
But this acknowledgment doesn't mean that debate is automatically closed.
Church has always, since the very start, been subject for change, in all kinds of ways.
In my (!) understanding of my christian faith, it might be time for a new deliberation according to the subjects in mind.
Kjell-Erik Edlund
Former officer
Sweden
Here's what's happening: The Salvation Army hid behind the convenient Catch 22 of intimacy being reserved for marriage, yet marriage being reserved for hetrosexuals, so we're sorry... you need to be celibate my gay friend. Nothing we can do.
Except now, Western society has said that our gay friend can marry, so we can't hide behind that convenient argument anymore, and are being forced to defend an increasingly awkward position.
Is the FSAOF the only group that saw this potential wreck coming down the pike? Will IHQ/THQ seek a remedy that again isolates the Army from other denominations as they move forward in the 21st century? Will we witness a 'coming out - coming together'? Or more, 'don't tell' and stay in the HL closet?
The worse scenario would absolutely be if the Army would be found in a "don't ask, don't tell" situation.
I hope all would agree on that!
Kjell-Erik Edlund
Former officer
Sweden
I'm trying to find in the Scritures where God/Jesus says that same sex marriage is ok and is God Ordained? When I read in I Corinthians 7 about Marriage it deals with a Man and Woman. Just because the world wants to and can legalize anything it wants, it doesn't make it right or does it? Does it superseed God's word? Will the Salvation Army be left behind if we don't live up to the worlds expectations? Help me to clearly understand where scriptue supports this and you will win me over. I read in I Corthinthins 6:9 a list of people who will not inherit God's kingdom weather your" sin is sexual,worship idols, take part in adultery, are a male prositutes or men who have sexual relations with other men, those who steal, are greedy, get drunk, lie about others or rob - these people will not inherit God's Kingdom."
I just a soldier wanting to do the right thing here without compromising the standards of God.
USA - Chicago
Well dear USA-Chicago.
Of course I have to give you right on that we can't find any passage in the Bible that bring this up - that is ss- marriage of course.
On the other hand, I can give you several passages that are quite clear about womans place in church...
I do not (!) wish to be patronizing in any way, but handling the Word of God needs a bigger understanding of time, culture etc.
The authors of the Bible couldn't really predict circumstances and knowledges that we, modern humans of our time are in possession of now.
Kjell-Erik Edlund
Former officer
Sweden
USA Chicago - you are reading God's inspired word set out plainly and reading what you actually see - the pro-gay activists are obsessed with INTERPRETING His Word according to their own inclinations (a sign of the falling away from the truth - prophecies concerning the last days). Read what Dr John Stott says about the subject - you won't go far wrong. And the transgender person on another posting is expecting equal treatment if The Salvation Army gives way on LGBTs. It's a can of worms, a Pandora's box, neither of which are particularly edifying.
To USA - Chicago (Soldier),
You are right in that there are no passages that encourage men being married to men or women to women. However, equally, there are NO passages that refer to homosexuality (as we are discussing it in this series) as a sin. In fact, there are NO passages in scripture anywhere that refers to homosexuality (as we are discussing it in this series) full stop. When you read the passages that are often brought out by conservatives to condemn homosexuality in the original languages they were written in, you find they say very different things to what they say in modern language (mainly English).
The debate is whether or not homosexuality is a sin (given our modern understanding of what homosexuality is). And if not, how do we re-write our doctrine to be more biblical.
Yours in Christ,
Graeme Randall
Former Australian East in London
TO US Chicago soldier - Graeme Randall says .......'you find they (biblical passages) say very different things to what they say in modern language'..........
but here is an excerpt from THE BIBLE IN MODERN ENGLISH IN 2014 - TODAY!
1 Timothy 1
New International Version - UK (NIVUK)
Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the command of God our Saviour and of Christ Jesus our hope,
To Timothy my true son in the faith: Grace, mercy and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord.
As I urged you when I went into Macedonia, stay there in Ephesus so that you may command certain people not to teach false doctrines any longer or to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies. Such things promote controversial speculations rather than advancing God’s work – which is by faith. The goal of this command is love, which comes from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith. Some have departed from these and have turned to meaningless talk. They want to be teachers of the law, but they do not know what they are talking about or what they so confidently affirm.
We know that the law is good if one uses it properly. We also know that the law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, for the sexually immoral, for those practising homosexuality, for slave traders and liars and perjurers – and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine 11 that conforms to the gospel concerning the glory of the blessed God, which he entrusted to me.
I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who has given me strength, that he considered me trustworthy, appointing me to his service. Even though I was once a blasphemer and a persecutor and a violent man, I was shown mercy because I acted in ignorance and unbelief. The grace of our Lord was poured out on me abundantly, along with the faith and love that are in Christ Jesus.
Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners – of whom I am the worst. But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his immense patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive eternal life. Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.
AND
2 Timothy 4
New International Version - UK (NIVUK)
In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who will judge the living and the dead, and in view of his appearing and his kingdom, I give you this charge: preach the word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage – with great patience and careful instruction. For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather round them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths. But you, keep your head in all situations, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, discharge all the duties of your ministry.
And it certainly does mention homosexuality - maybe Mr Randall and people who think like him are the people with itching ears referred to in the Bible passage, only wanting to hear that which is pleasing to them? Alas, Christian discipline is out of fashion these days - it's all but dead. Not many of us invite the chastening of our Heavenly Father.
But once we dilute the powerful and sometimes unwelcome guidance as written in the Inspired Word of God, we are on a slippery moral slope, open only to personal interpretation which can deny the power of the message.
Thank you Mr.Kjell Edlund for your reply.
I believe there are things that transend time and Generations, and God does not change nor does he tolerate sin. Some of those sins are spelled out. Also, I try to remain focused on this one single issue by not including sidebar issues as a distraction.
Thanks for understanding.
USA - Chicago
Graeme Randall said:
"The debate is whether or not homosexuality is a sin (given our modern understanding of what homosexuality is). And if not, how do we re-write our doctrine to be more biblical."
If only it were that simple. I would agree that homosexuality is probably not a sin - I cannot find anything in the bible which indicates otherwise. However, sexual relations between same sex couples clearly is a sin. Equally, there are plenty of relevant scriptures which portray this fact.
So to the issue of SS marriage - is there a biblical basis for this? No. Marriage is a union between man and woman.
This sadly leaves those christians who are homosexual in a position whereby marriage and sexual union is out of their grasp if they decide they wish to live a life which is God honouring. The choices we all make when we become christians include sacrifices.
What does not change is that God loves everyone. We as God's representatives should do the same. That doesn't require condoning a lifestyle choice, just loving irrespective.
So, there are far more issues here that "is homosexuality a sin?". What Graeme is trying to do is polarise a debate which is far more involved than he gives credit. What is your definition of homosexuality? Does it involve sexual inimacy? Are you just posing the question about an orientation?
Lets not try to polarise a difficult debate and therefore try and hijack it to our own motives. We should simply rely on scripture as revealed to us through the Holy Spirit.
Soldier, UKT
Just a thought.... In the ten commandments "thou shalt not committ adultery" Who was this addressed too? Married people or those in committed relationships- Same sex?
Thank you to those who posted after me for proving my point. The passages published were indeed in English - and not the original language - which proves my point that when you read them in the original language, (Greek and Hebrew), you get a very different understanding.
I am not trying to polarise the debate - it already is. The debate is far more complicated than even those who posted after me realise. It's not a simple matter of saying that the Bible only talks about heterosexual marriage, so only heterosexual marriage is acceptable. That is the kind of reasoning that simplifies the debate beyond reason. That reasoning ignores so much else in the Bible and so many other areas in life which we have reasoned out, including polygamy, prostitution, child brides, rape, slavery, the position of women etc.
One of the comments made the assumption that LGBT persons are so different to heterosexuals that they cannot enjoy monogamous relationships. This is not true. Please don't accept sterotypes as this is not helpful in the debate.
Yours in Christ.
Graeme Randall
Former Australian East in London
Graeme Randall says....'One of the comments made the assumption that LGBT persons are so different to heterosexuals that they cannot enjoy monogamous relationships. ....'
That's a bit naughty - I can't see it anywhere. Obsession comes to mind.....
Don't like gay marriage? Don't get gay married. Don't like gay sex? STOP your obsessing about it! It's that simple. Why are we so obsessed with what goes on or doesn't go on in other people's bedrooms?
If it only where as simple as that...
The current situations about LGBT is that in a vast majority of the countries in the world, they are not aloud to be, or exist... at all...
The thing is... they do exist!
As for my self, I have desided to speak up, and do it in advocacy of those ones. Even if they are a tiny minority of our societies.
As simple as that...
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