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Christians whose sexual orientation is primarily or exclusively same-sex are called upon to embrace celibacy as a way of life. There is no scriptural support for same-sex unions as equal to, or as an alternative to, heterosexual marriage." - Salvation Army USA Web site, Dec. 2003
"[Homosexual activity is] as rebellion against God's plan for the created order.... Homosexual practice, however, is, in the light of Scripture, clearly unacceptable. Such activity is chosen behaviour and is thus a matter of the will. It is therefore able to be directed or restrained in the same way heterosexual urges are controlled. Homosexual practice would render any person ineligible for full membership (soldiership) in the [Salvation] Army." - Salvation Army Australia Web site (emphasis added)
In Scotland the Salvation Army actively lobbied against the repeal of anti-gay laws banning the "promotion" of homosexuality as a "pretended family relationship," arguing that it would harm children:
As the Salvation Army's Scotland Secretary I am writing to you on his behalf to share with you the views of The Salvation Army on this important matter.
“We welcome your recognition that marriage is still the ideal context for raising children and your assurances regarding guidelines for teachers in recent discussion on the repeal of "Section 28". However, we believe that by repealing this clause, the Scottish Executive will potentially be harming both children and the family unit.
We are concerned that we cannot predict the result of a repeal, and feel the floodgates could be opened, ultimately causing great hurt to both parents, teachers and our children. We are also very aware of the increasing pressures on young people to experiment with heterosexual sex at a younger age, without the additional pressure of self-questioning regarding homosexual sex.
As an international church and charity which supports and helps any person regardless of sex, race or religion, The Salvation Army believes that, contrary to the Executive's view, the proposed repeal would increase discrimination and result in more bullying in our schools. We can easily envisage a situation where, due to active promotion of homosexuality in schools, children will grow up feeling alienated if they fail to conform.
Those in the USA will recall that the Salvation Army ‘caved’ to the religious right. SA Board members, many officers and employees and rescinded on the agreement to provide domestic partner benefits for its gay employees.
7 comments:
I really don't know where to begin.
Everything in the various positional statements is based on old, inaccurate understandings of biblical texts. There is nothing in all of scripture that prohibits homosexuality. We can only use the bible to prohibit homosexuality if we extremely badly interpret it - just like people use the bible to support slavery and spousal abuse. Greater understanding of biblical and ancient language and culture shows us that a lot of what we believe is complete rubbish and has nothing to do with scripture.
As to the kind of 'love' people say they show to homosexuals... I don't think people realise how abusive, condescending, and hateful that comes across. I would not want to belong to a fellowship described by some of the people in the blog sight as it sounds extremely abusive to me. The fact that homosexuals still ask advise from such people speaks to the maturity and emotional stability of the homosexuals, who can put aside such abuse and recognise that different people can offer different kinds of support.
Much of what is outlined in the various positional statements above (particularly from Scotland) is nothing but scaremongering. There is absolutely NO evidence for any of it. In fact, what evidence there is, completely contradicts what the Scottish secretary has said.
I know we will never come to agreement in a debate forum like this. Perhaps we need a series of articles - with point-counterpoint articles - (and more than just a couple) to begin to thrash it out. There are entire books on the subject. We need to do it from an objective point of view, realising that there is better understanding of ancient documents and culture which shed new light on how biblical documents should be translated. We need to realise that much of what the church teaches today is simply based on tradition. New translation is always weighed against the tradition of the church. This makes scripture a completely dead book which has no power in it as it is not taken in the spirit and understanding it was written in.
Let's hope that now we can start an earnest debate on the subject. However, I fear we will still end up agreeing to disagree as it calls into question so much about what people believe, and who people are. I recall the articles I wrote last year (I'm sure they can still be found in the archives), and how people did not respond to the evidence I produced, but simply responded with their beliefs. No-one refuted my criticism of existing conservative 'research', or the translation of ancient documents in light of newer understanding of ancient culture and writing. No-one acknowledged that even the traditionalists only pick and chose the scriptures that they want to apply to life. No-one acknowledged that if the same 'rules' were applied to the translation and interpretation of the so-called anti-gay passages, were applied to other passages, then slavery would be allowed, women would be legally beaten, and children constantly sexually abused.
But I live in hope. Hope that we will all come to a new understanding.
Yours in Christ,
Graeme Randall
Former Australian East
You are correct. There are many that would disagree with you. You are basically stating that you are correct and that homosexuality is not a sin and not wrong and was totally an approved practice in the Bible. Then I would have to say that the whole Bible is incorrect and a lie.History is full of lies and so we cannot rely on anything. That would leave an open door for anything. I do not believe that , though.
You have a right to believe what you want. God is the final judge. Continuing to convince others that sexual sin is ok is a state I would not want to find myself. There will be a high price to pay. Keep changing the meaning of Hebrew and Greek texts and everything will be ok.Keep saying over and over that the culture is different and that God looks at certain practices differently today than 2,000 years ago or whenever. Convince yourself that you can do what you want. God does give people over to their own devises and choices. The end result is a high price to pay. The end result is terrible. Too bad.
USA East former
One wonders why SA's gays seek to retain their affiliation with an organisation they are at such odds with. Have any of the gays in The SA been removed from their corps' rolls or roles due their lifestyle?
If you live in the London area here are a few churches that would welcome you warmly. This is not meant to encourage you to leave a SA fellowship, only to help you find a happy place and save us your constant lecturing and bickering. Believe me Graeme, we do get it!
MCC of East London
London, WC1N 3XX
United Kingdom
Website: http://www.mcceastlondon.org.uk
MCC of North London
London, WC1N 3XX
United Kingdom
Work Phone: info@mccnorthlondon.org
Work Email:
44 0 208 802 0962
Website: http://www.mccnorthlondon.org
MCC of South London
PO Box 13242
London, SW2 2ZN
United Kingdom
Work Phone: whitesmail@tesco.net
Work Email:
44 0 20 8678 0200
Website: http://www.mccsouthlondon.co.uk
UKT
Former
London Corps
I'm in the middle of another important project so I don't have much time but when I read the above mishmash of positions on H. from the Army world I just felt I had to respond if only for a minute.
Thank goodness Graeme always seems to beat me to the punch on much of the Biblical groundwork or I'd have carpal tunnel syndrome by now!
To believe that "the scriptures of the Old and New Testaments were given by inspiration of God and that they only constitute the divine rule of Xian Faith and Practice" is not the same as having a "fundamentalist view of scripture."
The Army has never been known for its great emphasis on theology and though there are some positive aspects to this history(such as during the theological debates of the 1920s where when all the other denominations were in-fighting the Army just simply carried on with its work)when it came/comes to many hot button social issues in it's 145 year history (such as the current debates on H.)this reluctance to delve too deeply into the cultural, historical and linguistic meaning of various scripture is a definite negative.
In the days before the internet some of these issues (such as the civil rights movement. 36 minutes into the Hx of the KU KLUX KLAN on the History Channel you will see an Adjutant with a Jesus Saves banner above him and a corps band on the side of the platform welcoming the Klan into his corps!)had time to work themselves out before there were any negative repercussions toward the Army from the public at large. In the era of the internet the Army will no longer have this luxury as evidenced by a number of current anti-Salvation Army sites already on-line!
If the right-wingers and fundamentalists of the Army continue to have a lop-sided say on the issue of H. not only will they cause the Army a lot of harm in the future but to be consistant they're going to have to get rid of all divorced and re-married officers (btw, divorce and re-marriage is a subject Jesus ACTUALLY spoke about!),close down all of its gifts and annuities departments (there are at least ten verses--4 more than on H.--condemning usury as a terrible sin) and can all of its women officers, or at least restrict them from ever preaching as the Southern Baptists have done!
Once again I reiterate (as I did in a previous posting) Homosexuality in itself has NOTHING to do with morality, faith, sin and repentance, etc. any more or less than does heterosexuality! Also, homosexuality is not related to promiscuity, pedophilia, drug abuse, Godlessness, etc. anymore than is heterosexuality. They are completely different subjects. Homosexuality is a sexual orientation with a biological basis the same as is heterosexuality. It is a subject related to science. The Bible is not a book about science. It is a book about faith.
If anyone is interested, I ran across an excellent documentary on the subject of H. and the Bible recently. It's the best DVD I've seen on the subject even though like anything it has it's time restraints and thus is not perfect. Also, one of my best friends Mel White(originally a prof at Fuller Theological Seminary) speaks in it. It's called "For the Bible Tells Me So..." and lays all of the arguments out on the table. The DVD is on sale at Amazon but you can also catch it in segments on YOU TUBE. I'm not sure that they have the whole thing on YOU TUBE but they have a number of segments and maybe they do have all of the segments--I'm just not sure. (I'm going to have to start another post to conclude...)
Daryl Lach
USA Central
Continuing....Lastly, before I go get my mother her lunch I want to briefly comment on the USA Army caving into the James Dobsons and Pat Robertsons of the world on the health care issue of 10 years ago. The trouble there was that the Army's leaders did not first explain the policy to the rank and file, advisory boards, etc. They acted as if it was still 1900 and that they were living in a world where people just automatically take orders from the top down without any explanations! If they had included everyone in the process there might have been a much different and more positive outcome.
In the new policy any employee could've put any one other person living in their household(with no questions asked as to the relationship)on their health insurance policy. It could've been your mother, brother, sister, daffy live-in aunt you keep locked up in the attic so that the neighbors won't think someone in your family sinned---anyone---not just a gay partner or live in lover. Not one cent of the Army's money would be used. The employee would pay the small stipend out of their own pocket.In this way the Army could comply with and be eligible for local govt. grants for its social services and maintain its ethical integrity.
Unfortunately, because the leaders at the time screwed up with their pre-WWII mentality most people got their news about it from James Dobson's slanted Focus On the Family broadcasts, The 700 Club and the secular news media which for the sake of controversy and ratings painted it as a gay rights issue instead of a health care issue. I find it also interesting that the Xian right which claims to love gays "while hating their sin" actually wound up showing their hatred of gays by seeing to it that no one else who otherwise could have been included did not get health insurance! They would do well to re-read Jonah and see what God thinks of people who to make a theological point (in Jonah's case Jewish Particularism) would just as soon see children suffer then to cast the widest possible net of mercy!
Btw, from what I understand since then the Army has quietly and without any fanfare instituted the policy after all in many local areas--thank God!
That's my take on it all. God Bless Everyone and God Bless the Salvation Army (sometimes even in spite of itself!).
Daryl Lach
USA Central
P.S. Oh, one last comment on the Australian ethics statement on H. The line about "homosexual urges being controlled the same as heterosexual urges are controlled?"(uh huh.)
"You Must Go Home By the Way of the Cross, to Stand with Jesus in the Morning!"
What happened to 'God is Love', love one another as I have loved you'! He that is without sin, cast the first stone'!
As a belated officer, and Gay, I am totally appauled by TSA's attitude and mis-appropriation of the Scriptures, within the context of sexuality. TSA is
totally out of date, and if the Equality Laws ever became 'countable' against any religious movement, which in the UK they are not, it would be an absolute judgement day.
I am aware as so many other Gay's who have left the TSA, that if any of us, revealled the facts of our -inquisition at DHQ/THQ, when we had been 'outed', - not even in circumstance where we have mis-appropriated/compromised ourselves.
Equally if those officers now in TSA who are gay were brave enough to take a stand, goodness knows what would happen!
For me as for so many others, ministry is now a joy, being 'me', loved and cared for in my new pastoral role, in a denomination that was once the formative offshoot of salvationism.
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